sulah kulliyat

[Aqdas]

This is regarding the recent sunni conference, ahmad dabbagh and tariqah muhammadiyah. (http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=6693)

Sulah kulliyat is a disease and it is spreading. Sulah kullis are people who don’t differentiate between ahlus sunnah wa’l jama’ah and the false sects such as wahabis, deobandis and shi’a. They deem it permissible to sit, pray and socialise with them. Sulah kullis do not condemn any false sect and will invite wahabis, deobandis and shi’as to their gatherings and will these innovators speak in their mosques etc.

This is why sulah kulliyat is such a dangerous illness. Innocent sunnis are tricked into thinking that wahabis, deobandis and shi’as are upon the truth too and that we should treat them like we would a sunni. Their false and sometimes kufri beliefs are played down and judged to be minor issues.

Does sulah kulliyat fit in with the teaching of the qur’an, sunnah and sayings of our scholars? No, it doesn’t. Treating the people of innovation as brothers has always been something strongly discouraged in islam. Here are some examples of this:

The dear prophet sallAllahu ‘alaihi wasallam said: Whoever accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allah, His Angels and the whole of mankind.

Today, nevermind “accommodating”; there are “scholars” who are making people the organisers of our gatherings who have lenience towards the innovators.

Sufyan al-thawri said: Whoever listens to an innovator has left the protection of Allah.

Again, listening is a far lesser act than actually formally inviting someone to a sunni gathering who is known to associate with innovators.

Fudayl ibn ayaz said: I met the best of people, all of them used to forbid from accompanying the people of innovation.

Hasan al-basri said: Do not sit with the people of innovation and desires, nor argue with them, nor listen to them.

---
The above is what the dear prophet sallAllahu ‘alaihi wasallam and the ‘ulama taught us. We must neither talk to them nor pray their janaza.

Sunnis must take this matter seriously and know well that deobandis are known liars who infiltrate our organisations. They will lie to achieve this and will not show their true colours until their job is done.

Is it not a massive fitna that a man who does not label deobandis as out of ahlus sunnah can stand in a sunni mosque at an annual conference and address innocent sunnis? It can be claimed that he has become a sunni but can years of affiliation to deobandism be wiped away in days?

I implore all sunnis to campaign against sulah kullis. Don’t let them get a foothold in our mosques. Tell everyone you know – especially people of authority amongst sunnis – about sulah kullis.

As above, if a sulah kulli has now renounced his former position, be cautious and wary of him and his group. We must never take such matters at face value. If someone in a reputable position is friends with such a man/group; there may be underlying reasons for this. Maybe they have been friends for a long time. Maybe they have become part of the group and wish to promote them.

No man who has history with the deobandis should be allowed to lecture at a sunni mosque.

As the imam of ahlus sunnah, ahmad raza barelwi, said:

Sona jangal, raat andheri, cHaayi badly kaali hai
Sone waalo jaagte rahiyo, choroN ki rakh waali hai

We must not fall/remain asleep. Awaken! Awaken, oh sunni muslim!

[CHISHTI]

Salaam Brother

Would this involve Ulema such as Shaikh Hamza Yusuf, Shaikh Nuh, Shaikh Yaqoobi, Shaikh Habib Ali, Shaikh Abdul Hakim Murad etc who all sit with deos...i'm not being flippant here brother..it's just that i'm a convert and if these Ulema are to be avoided then i'm a little short of Ulema to listen to.

What Ulema would you recommend to an convert?

Again bro i'm not being funny with you...this is serious...i went to the Sunni conference and the Tareeqa Muhammadiya guys looked like the taliban and i avoided them!!

[naqshbandijamaati]

brother the converts are excluded from this since they have valid excuses until proven otherwise (eg they dont know the urdu language so cannot verify for themselves the kufriyaat of the deos and are dependent on others to interpret for them.); any aalim from the subcontinent or of such ethnicity/heritage who has a soft spot for deobandits is DODGY.

to quote pir sayyid irfan shah sahib--may Allah protect him and raise his maqaam : 'jo pir apna aqidah khul kay na bayaan kare voh pir nahin khanzir hai!'
if a pir [or alim] doesn't openly and clearly state his aqidah he is not a pir but a khanzir!

[CHISHTI]

I understand brother...although this:

....... "if a pir [or alim] doesn't openly and clearly state his aqidah he is not a pir but a khanzir!"

..is abit too strong for my taste.

[Aqdas]

bro. chishti, what nj said is right. read these:

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18606&postcount=15 (http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18606&postcount=15)

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18625&postcount=20 (http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18625&postcount=20)

http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18634&postcount=18 (http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showpost.php?p=18634&postcount=18)

---
but, for urdu speakers who know what deobandis are; there is no excuse. we should never let deobandi sympathisers to lecture us.

[faqir]

Is the Tariqa Muhammadiya a Shadhili offshoot?
http://www.zawiyah.org/Sanad.htm

Both the Hasani and Husayni sanads go through Abul Hasan al-Shadhili, Abul Abbas al-Mursi, Ahmad Zarruq, etc.

Any idea if they recite the standard Shadhili adhkar?

[maulanax]

brother aqdas is that your final verdict that this jamaat should be banned from our mosques and is completely a non sunni jamaat.

i need confirmation plz!

[naqshbandijamaati]

in punjabi/urdu the sullah e kulli lot can be recognised when they say, 'saaray hii theek eN' or 'sab theek hain' -- or 'sunni mat kaho! hum sab musulmaan hain'.

listen to the speech on akaid e ahle sunnat here (http://www.sunniport.com/masabih/showthread.php?t=3410&highlight=aqaid)

in it Shah Sahib Mufakkir e Islam talks about sullah-e-kulliyat and its dangers in the first 30 minutes somewhere...i will try to find the exact time for you.

[if u can understand high-falutin' Urdu mixed liberally with Farsi and bits of Potohari this is an incredible speech.]

[Aqdas]

@maulanax:

if someone has had connections with deobandis in the past like the TM have, we should not let them into our ranks that quickly. it's way too dangerous. the jama'at should be treated as sulah kulli until they prove they have left all that behind.

if they have become sunni, alHamdulillah. but, even then, they should in no circumstance be allowed to do tabligh to sunnis so soon.

i am not saying they are not sunni, that is between them and Allah; but because they are known to be deobandi sympathisers, we should let them spend a few years on the sidelines. when they have shown they hold no sympathy for deobandis, sunnis may sit down with them and discuss a way forward. no sooner than a few years.

[maulanax]

bro aqdas i dont think theres really any solid proof that they are sunni whilst theres lots of info about their recent deobandi fitnas in their history. not after knowing about its leader im sure you have some contacts in bolton mosque why dont you ask them about this group.

but as far as TM are concerned i dont think we should treat it as sunni at all.

[Aqdas]

it's clear that TM have had links with deobandis. but, now we're hearing that dabbagh has signed a document saying he's a sunni.

so, what we need to do is wait. we can't say he's not sunni but we can't straight away make him our leader either. it was/is totally naive of jama'at e ahle sunnat to host him. if he can - in 2012, say - show us a clean 3 year record, we can think about letting him have a short time for a speech. even though i think it's best to leave him alone.

remember, he's not a scholar anyway. he is a layman. so, even if he's sunni, should he be talking of lofty matters such as tasawwuf?

i still think the best way forward is to carry da'wat e islami. they have the resources, the platform and most of all, there is no doubt over their 'aqida.

[B]if anyone has the latest information, please let us have it.

meanwhile, let us wait. no sunni should invite him to our mosques yet.

[maulanax]

aqdas bhai why dont u contact the bolton mosque where allegedley there has been an attempt to hijack the mosque, that will give us more info and as for the document i cant see it anywhere does it even exist? this is just another lame excuse if there is a document why dont they show it us.

[SA01]

Goodness me! May Allah SWT help us all to preserve our imaan through acceptance of the true Ahle Sunnah Aqeedah! Aameen.

[avp1bbs]

i am from bolton, and ive previously informed you, 4 sunni mosques in bolton are not satisfied with this group. one is noor ul islam bolton and second is new madinah masjid bolton 3rd is ghausia masjid, 4th is sugrah masjid bolton farnworth, you can contact the imams of the mosques and also have you not heard there speeches where they say hazrat ashraf ali thanvi rehmahullah, they believe ashraf ali thanvi is a vali.

[Farooq]

it's clear that TM have had links with deobandis. but, now we're hearing that dabbagh has signed a document saying he's a sunni.

so, what we need to do is wait. we can't say he's not sunni but we can't straight away make him our leader either. it was/is totally naive of jama'at e ahle sunnat to host him. if he can - in 2012, say - show us a clean 3 year record, we can think about letting him have a short time for a speech. even though i think it's best to leave him alone.

remember, he's not a scholar anyway. he is a layman. so, even if he's sunni, should he be talking of lofty matters such as tasawwuf?

i still think the best way forward is to carry da'wat e islami. they have the resources, the platform and most of all, there is no doubt over their 'aqida.

[B]if anyone has the latest information, please let us have it.

meanwhile, let us wait. no sunni should invite him to our mosques yet.

Brother Aqdas,

You raise a great point. I to have never understood why our Sunni masjids don't provide more support to Dawat-e-Islami.

In my opinion, Dawat-e-Islami alhumdolilah is doing more work on a global scale than any other Sunni group. Thus, it is critical for Sunnis to support Dawat-e-Islami in every event possible.

[maulanax]

i am from bolton, and ive previously informed you, 4 sunni mosques in bolton are not satisfied with this group. one is noor ul islam bolton and second is new madinah masjid bolton 3rd is ghausia masjid, 4th is sugrah masjid bolton farnworth, you can contact the imams of the mosques and also have you not heard there speeches where they say hazrat ashraf ali thanvi rehmahullah, they believe ashraf ali thanvi is a vali.

brother can u plz provide the links where he has blurted his true aqeedah. thnx

[Abu Fadl]

Let us see the document and what it says, in particular what it says about deobandis. I heard it simply says something like "we accept Ala Hazrat".

[truth_hurts]

salam. please see the links below. where the sheikh talks about imam tehmiyah and calls him with respect as rehimullah alaih

Forward to approx 19 mins:

http://www.zawiyah.org/tv/Purification.htm (http://www.zawiyah.org/tv/Purification.htm)

or click below and forward to 9 mins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrtuX2F6EdA&feature=PlayList&p=A9A397CE8ACEDB97&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrtuX2F6EdA&feature=PlayList&p=A9A397CE8ACEDB97&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1)

[zulfikar]

Assalam mualaikum. brother aqdas i strongly condemn ur view on sulah kulliyat.as far as i am concerned they are still sunnis therefore by shunning them out u not doin any justice cause they dnt know the actual truth abt deobands.i think scholars need to tackle this problem diplomatically rather than saying kick them out cause they are with deobands.forgive me 4 saying this but our ulemas can be very aggrasive on issues like this one.remember u are saving someones imaan by giving them info and knowledge.u will probably be saying how many times ulemas give lectures,written bks etc abt deobands but as i said ''tact''skill.however if they are still ignorant do whatever is necessary.

[Aqdas]

my dear, where did i say kick them out? what i say is that they can take a back row seat at our gatherings and not be allowed to preach so soon. when they have proven without doubt that they no longer love the deobandis, we can take the next step.

our ulemas can be very aggrasive on issues like this one
we, ahlus sunnah, are the least aggressive of them all. we're not the ones who shout shirk and bid'ah and accuse the majority of the ummah of today and the past as being mushriks and bidyis. that's the deobandis.

as far as i am concerned they are still sunnis
i didn't say they're not. what i did say is that they had very close relations with hardcore deobandis. shall we immediately let the student of a major lying deobandi to address our innocent youth?

there are many scholars who have sat with dabbagh who fear his fitna.

[naqshbandijamaati]

Brother Faqir loves Deobandis for some reason. Personally, if I saw a poisonous snake on one path and a Deobandi elder on the other path in a fork in the road IŽd take the path with the poisonous snake as its less dangerous... (it can only take my dunya but the deo can ruin my akhirah if i let him too close and listen to his poison.)

[naqshbandijamaati]

All Sidi Aqdas is urging is caution vis a vis the Tariqa Muhammadiyyah crew thats all.

[Aqdas]

take your talk about ibn taymiyyah et al elsewhere. this thread is about why we shouldn't let any man who has been trained by leading deobandis to lecture at sunni gatherings. khalid mahmood, the mancunian liar, is ahmad dabbagh's teacher.

he mustn't lecture at our gatherings
he mustn't lecture at our gatherings
he mustn't lecture at our gatherings

ps: if you really must talk about ibn taymiyyah, don't do it in this thread. only posts about dabbagh and his fitna here.

[maulanax]

aqdas bhai i have heard that ahmed dabbagh was a jinn master is there any proof of this?

where is all the info about this man coming from?

[Wadood]

So its proven then that khalid mehmood is ahmad dabbagh's teacher. So this was a classic case of deobandi/wahabi/tablighi taqiyyah once again

[zulfikar]

assalam mualaikum brother aqdas i understand ur point loud n clear as u were referring to the scholars who are lenient 2wards deobands i absolutely detest scholars of such nature.however what abt ppl with the same mentality?i dont know the situation in the u.k but here in S.A the stats show 80% of sunnis are 'sula kulliyat' so how do we tackle this problem?

[Aqdas]

stats show 80% of sunnis are 'sula kulliyat' so how do we tackle this problem?
the brothers can answer better but we can try explaining to them the evils of associating with ahlu'l bid'ah. see my post above about hadith and sayings about its evils.

[Wadood]

It is paramount that we protect our youth from ahlul bid'a. The Sunni masses must dissociate themselves from ahlul bid'a.

Dont the wahabis avoid us Sunnis, calling us 'grave worshippers'?

Has anyone ever seen how the deobandis/wahabis go crazy, when a mosque holds a 'barelwi' event? I have seen it ALL OVER North America. They even try their best to convince the neutral mosques not to hold mawlids of the 'barelwis'. I have seen it with my own eyes. Its their top scholars doing it. These scholars were trained from top deobandi/wahabi madrasas in Gujarat, India.

If Habib Ali sits with wahabis, and rafidis in Kuwait, its because he is a qualified da'i. And those wahabis and those rafidis are not giving lectures to Sunni youth, a point that Aqdas is emphasizing. So this is the difference.

As for adaab in dealing with ahlul bid'a, then that is a separate topic

Would Salman al-Oda or the twelver shia 'scholars' that Habib Ali met in Kuwait be allowed to lecture the masses of youth in Dar al-Mustafa? I don't think so.

Sunnis should recognize blackmail and point it out CLEARLY.

[Ghulam]

His also the teacher of Hafiz waheed, more famously known as Ahmed Dabbagh nowadays and trying to portray himself as a sunni, yesterday he was doing another talk at a sunni masjid in bham.

[Ridwi]

His also the teacher of Hafiz waheed, more famously known as Ahmed Dabbagh nowadays and trying to portray himself as a sunni, yesterday he was doing another talk at a sunni masjid in bham.

are they those who label themselves as the Tariqah Muhammadiya?

[Ghulam]

yes ridwi. them boys ,

[Haroon]

His also the teacher of Hafiz waheed, more famously known as Ahmed Dabbagh nowadays and trying to portray himself as a sunni, yesterday he was doing another talk at a sunni masjid in bham.

Are you sure Ahmed Dabbagh is not a sunni? Has he said anything which would lead you to this conclusion?

I ask because the mosque u mention is charles road mosque and i am 100% sure that they wouldnt let him come there if he wasnt sunni.

[Aqdas]

what on earth is wrong with the molwis of the group called jama'at e ahle sunnat in birmingham?

sardar ahmad qadri and ghulam rabbani afghani rolled out the red carpet for dabbagh at last years sunni conference. then we heard of him being invited to run a course at ghulam rasul chakswari's masjid and now gul rahman has hosted him.

have they forgotten that khalid mahmud deobandi is dabbagh's teacher?

why have they not approached the sunni ulama of bolton who have sat down with dabbagh and who have first hand experience and proof of his deviancy?

let these molwis not forget: you willl be questioned by Allah for letting this deobandi lover into sunni masjids so that he can deceive the sunni 'awam.

[Ghulam]

They are selling the deen on the cheap. Ahmed Dabbagh is a jinn master, he must of worked it on the like of these mullahs.

They have now done talks at charles road and Molvi chakswaris masjid in the past year.

I ve been told ghamkol sharif won't allow them to use their venue again.

[Aqdas]

I ve been told ghamkol sharif won't allow them to use their venue again.
inshaAllah.

but ghamkol sharif are the same group as gul rahman, afghani, sardar and chakswari...

[SuleimanalMuslim]

Come on, what is the point of calling people Jinn masters unless you are willing to present proofs.

[Ridwi]

i don't know about 'jinn master' as i haven't ever met Ahmad Dabbagh however the stance quite a few followers of tariqah muhammadiya have towards the deobandi's is alarming enough.

meeting them at the manchester annual na'at conference reminds me of the asif hussain farouqi murids stance towards the deobandis.

[ghulam-e-raza]

They reject Ala Hazrat's fatwa of kufr upon deobandis

[Ridwi]

there undercover deobandits by the look of things, just like ala hadrat warned that they have disguised themselves in the garb of sunnis

[Abu Fadl]

He very recently did a programme in Gul Rehman's mosque.

I have had a funny feeling about the Birmingham Jamat since I saw them supporting Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri's stance on Deobandis against Sunni Ulama such as Syed Zahid Ridwi (it was about Deobandis and Ala Hazrat). This was in the 80s.

Sardar Qadri has took khilafat from him now, I think Afghani Rabbani has taken something too.

[Mohammad Hassan Raza]

They reject Ala Hazrat's fatwa of kufr upon deobandisAnd whoever has done that will not be called a Sunni by a pesron who is in the right state of his mind.. And why do people reject the fatawa of kufr by Sarkaar A'ala Hazrat Rahmatullah Alayh, which was given to the deobandi leaders not only by him but the Major Scholars of 'Arab and 'Ajam too.?

ALLAH HAAFIZ

[Aqdas]

ahmad dabbagh's real name is abdul waheed.

his website still lists zakariya kandhalwi deobandi's khasayil e nabawi and ashraf ali thanwi deobandi's nashru't teeb as books that they take from.

the molwis of jama'at e ahle sunnat are treading a very slippery slope. we all know that sardar ahmad qadri and ghulam rabbani afghani have always had a soft spot for deobandis so, no, it doesn't mean dabbagh is a sunni just because they invited him.

when i spoke to afghani last year, after i said to him that dabbagh associates with deobandis, he had the gall to ask me: "who doesn't meet with deobandis? don't you meet deobandis?" i said: no, i don't meet with deobandis. he said all the ulama meet deobandis. i asked: does irfan mash'hadi meet deobandis? this left him speechless.

his questions to me clearly show that he knows dabbagh associates with deobandis and that is why afghani tried to generalise this to all sunni ulama so as to say: so what if dabbagh meets them, so do all the ulama.

---
i know mawlana rasul bakhsh sa'eedi is part of the jama'at too. the only thing i can think of right now is for his students to talk to him about this dangerous man and that jama'at e ahle sunnat should abandon him pronto.

[Sabri]

Im absolutely devestated to see how fast you guys are at pointing fingers. All the energy used so incredibly wrong.

The man who taught me math is a kafir, what does that make me?
The woman who taught me tajwid is a wahabi, what does that make me?

If I went and got fiqh lessons from this Khalid Mahmud, would you guys ban me and my students from your mosques?

If you did I wouldnt be sad about it at all. As this action from your side would be the direct opposite of what our beloved Prophet (salla Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam) taught us. He (salla Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam) knew every single munafiq in Madina by name, but didn't say that such and such a person is not a Muslim and such and such a person is a Muslim. Then WHO are me and you to say this person is a sunni and this person is not.

This Ahmad Dabbagh guy has obviously signed some papers saying that he has a sunni aqida but you guys still insist on black listing him. Have some fear of Allah, and fear pointing a condemning finger against the wrong people. Who knows, your wrong accusings might make this man a wali Allah; if he already isn't one.

Wa Allahu alim.

[Aqdas]

If I went and got fiqh lessons from this Khalid Mahmud, would you guys ban me and my students from your mosques?
if i was in charge, i would not let you lecture at my masjid because your teacher is a known innovator. why would i let the student of a known innovator who condemns ahlu's sunnah as mushriks and bid'yis lecture at my mosque?

this is befuddling. you have given the example of you taking fiqh which gives the impression that dabbagh only fiqh from khalid too which is not true.

He (salla Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam) knew every single munafiq in Madina by name, but didn't say that such and such a person is not a Muslim and such and such a person is a Muslim.
wrong.

This Ahmad Dabbagh guy has obviously signed some papers
and again. brilliant. use the word obviously so that readers take it as a given. where are the papers?

[Mohammad Hassan Raza]

All the energy used so incredibly wrong.

The woman who taught me tajwid is a wahabi, what does that make me?

If I went and got fiqh lessons from this Khalid Mahmud, would you guys ban me and my students from your mosques?If the work is to expose any person who is brainwashing people on the matters of Aqaid, clad in a Sunni Aalim's outfit and in reality having a Wahhabi aqeedah and teacher, then our energy is utilised very efficiently, Thank you ..

If you get fiqh lessons from Khalid Mahmud, first of all i would urge you to stop it then and there and instead go upto learned Sunni teachers. 'cause people like khalid mahmud cannot teach you the "Fa" of Fiqh. become the student of any Learned Sunni Aalim.

And related to banning.. If the people of my mosque know about aqeedah of Khalid Mahmud, or who he is, They will not allow even your shadow to fall on the Masjid which I attend, let alone entering it ..

ALLAH 'AZZAWAJAL is HAQQ

[abu Hasan]

The man who taught me math is a kafir, what does that make me?
you will not go to hell for making mistakes in math. but making mistakes in aqidah might land one there. al-iyadhubillah.

The woman who taught me tajwid is a wahabi, what does that make me?it depends. if you chose it yourself and you are an adult, and there was no other male teacher in the vicinity, and this woman was neither your wife nor your relative, and still you chose it yourself, why did you do it in the first place? and suppose all other constraints were with an excuse, then it is not much of a problem as long as it was only tajwid and nothing else.

suppose you were just a baby and it was your caretakers who put you in charge of a wahabi woman, then they are simply careless about the deen. would someone send their children to a racist or corrupt or mentally-unstable individual after knowing their persuasion?

this religion is your [muslim's] lifeblood; be careful about who you take it from.

If you did I wouldnt be sad about it at all. As this action from your side would be the direct opposite of what our beloved Prophet (salla Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam) taught us. He (salla Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam) knew every single munafiq in Madina by name, but didn't say that such and such a person is not a Muslim and such and such a person is a Muslim. Then WHO are me and you to say this person is a sunni and this person is not. the effects of studying under incompetent people is apparent. on the contrary, the Messenger of Allah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam had munafiqs removed from the masjid one by one and named them by saying 'o fulan [so-and-so] get out of the masjid, you are a munafiq..' [suddi from ibn malik from ibn abbas - see tafsir ibn kathir and tabari, surah tawbah, v.101]

a sunni is known by the company he keeps. and this is also has roots in the hadith and i will leave it to you as an exercise.

i suggest that you complete your studies [with a sunni alim] before arguing on internet forums.

wAllahu a'alam.

[Abu Fadl]

Moulana Rasul Bakhsh Sahib is the sadr of the jamaat, I do not know his position but this is worrying as it is birmingham jamaat led initiative.

Afghani Rabbani has a soft spot for deoebandis and the other day I heard someone saying that the jamat is soft on deobandis. Some people say the same about Gamkholvia masjid too.

Perhaps call Irfan Shah Sahib for a speech about this too. Yes get Amin Madani but this is far greater of a fitna as Ameen Madni is just a single lost individual - not a jamat!

[kattarsunni]

Today there was a gathering in Ghanmkol, where Maulana Asrar Rashid spoke on the importance of preserving the creed of Ahl alSunna and teaching our people their Aquida. There was strong words about people from the sub-continent who have no affiliation with Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and are now claiming to be Sunnis.

The irony was that Mufti Gul Rahman was there, and Misbah alMalik. Shaykh Sajad (FR Institute) was also there.

[Aqdas]

perhaps mawlana asrar et al should have an official meeting with jama'at e ahle sunnat so that dabbagh can be discussed and the papers he supposedly signed can be presented.

i don't think mufti munib ur rahman is still in the UK; if he was, he would offer the soundest advice on how to deal with someone like dabbagh who is a known deobandi affiliate. i can't think of many other sunni ulama in the UK whose word will hold as much significance.

have the ulama of bolton, who have first hand experience of dabbagh's deviancy, met with those in birmingham? if not, this shows another sunni flaw: lack of networking - online and offline.

if they have, then it is worrying. when we want to marry our children off, we meet with all and sundry, friends and foes, and listen to them about potential spouses but when it comes to taking knowledge of the deen, we will not even trust our fellow ulama. these ulama of birmingham are simply careless and there seems to be an ulterior motive of theirs as regards this dabbagh.

[Abu Fadl]

The problem is that Rabbani Afghani is close to Mufti Munib-ur-Rahman Sahib. Irfan Shah al-Mashdi is too.

[Ghulam]

We are talking about dabbagh not Dr tahir Qadri, dont divert this thread.

I am aware bolton ulema told the Bham jamaat of Hafiz Waheeds dodginess, however it fell on deaf ears, also Mufti Munib ur rahman was due to meet the bolton ulema on this issue during his recent visit.

can any brothers shed any light on this.

[Muhammad Hanif Qutub Shah]

true it is strange how gul Rahman sahib is part of the jamaat and even supports sulla kulliyat

molvi dabbagh deobandi is nothing for them

gul rahman sahib and rabbani afghani sahib were present a few years ago when they allowed the wahabi from islam channel (najdi) mohammed ali najdi do a speech after molana munawwar ateeqs speech. ijaaz shami sahib was the stage secretary it is a joke wahabis and deobandis speaking at a sunni conference?


gul rahman sahib, rabbani afghani sahib need to be accounted for by the ulama

[Ghulam]

A speech by Maulana Asrar Ahmed Rashid on Sullah kulliyat

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/7251969

[sunnimuslim]

sullah kulliyat is very dangerous. muslim sunni youth must abstain from it because it is dangerous for their imaan and belief.

[Ghulam]

The fitna of TM is continuing they are back in Bham Ghamkolvia on the 26th June. Despite getting told ghamkol wont hold this group it seems they have changed their decision,

Jamat e ahlesunnat are sold out sullah kullies.

[MubeenIqbal]

Is there any evidence for the deviance of TM? i.e. anything in their literature, or any clip of their shaykh, which shows that they are not from Ahlus Sunnah...

[Abu Fadl]

ghulam why are you surprised? they have been uniting with wahabis since they formed. Ever since, they have been doing Eid with the Saudis/Wahabis and have been opposing the other Sunni jamat on this.

There was a meeting in Birmingham with all groups present (the mayor was present too) and when the other jamat began to refute the points of Abdul Hadi al-Umri (ahl-e-hadis), Mufti Gul Rehman jumped to Umri's defence against the Sunni Ulama (he didn't get far though). That's completely outrageous and shows you where their hearts are. There are many witnesses to this event and many others like this. Even Moulana Rasool Baksh Saeedi (president) was in support of doing Eid with wahabis (I think recently he has changed).

So this is nothing new as people have always knew it's a softy softy jamat when it comes to wahbis.

[Muhammadi]

http://www.yanabi.com/forum/Topic380596.aspx?PageIndex=2#bm380728

[Abu Hafsah]

Aslamu alaykum

I will be attending this sunni conference, then im going to cause a wreck in their camp of this TM.

[Ghulam]

Abu hafsah we don't want a riot caused by you. We won't tolerate trouble.

[Abu Fadl]

Any molvi that goes to this conference is a deobandi, simple as that. No space for him in Ahl-e-Sunnat.

If the ulamaa do not boycott it then there is not much point in anyone else doing anything.

[faqir]

lol, funny!

[Abu Hafsah]

Abu hafsah we don't want a riot caused by you. We won't tolerate trouble.
Lol, I do not wish to nor intend to cause a riot, i suggested that i would discuss with them by grilling them like i did last year when i told them to prove the shajra of their shaykh and they told me to read al-Ibriz, their 'shaykh' has got a 300 year gap and they couldnt respond to my questions. So i thought maybe i should feed them the same menu i gave them last year.

[Ghulam]

Yanabi lot and abu fadlare trying to disunite the sunnis by gettng sunnis to fight amongst each other. This is a ploy by them to cause trouble. they talk about devs in jamat e ahlesunnat mehfils , ive seen many shias in there mehfils.

whats there response to them. rafidis are the big brothers of tafzilis

[Ibn Amin]

Lol, I do not wish to nor intend to cause a riot, i suggested that i would discuss with them by grilling them like i did last year when i told them to prove the shajra of their shaykh and they told me to read al-Ibriz, their 'shaykh' has got a 300 year gap and they couldnt respond to my questions. So i thought maybe i should feed them the same menu i gave them last year.

I have asked the Shaykh personally for his shajara, and the sanad of his shaykh. You can read it from their homepage too, where it has been for a long time now.

http://www.zawiyah.org/PDFs/TM_Sanad.pdf

(from the page http://www.zawiyah.org/About%20TM_1.htm)

The story about the gab of 300 years is merely rumours and we should not attack muslims based on rumours - moreover it is not a proof as it is allowed in tasawwuf to have a gab (in dhahir), but that is another story which is not relevant here. We should try to identify the one's who are deviated and try to guide them to right path - not actively make people (stand as) deviated - without proofs.

At the moment we (I) (only) know that the Shaykh has signed a paper endorsing the fatwa of A'lahadrat (rahimahullah) and that he has a non-broken sanad up to the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) in tariqa - and not with a gab of 300 years. Based on this we have to accept him as sunni (and moreover follower of A'lahadrat (rahimahullah)). If you can bring any valid proof of his being deobandi then provide them instead of just attacking.